Episode 42: Curing the Culture: Why Healthcare Burnout is Solvable with Dr. Laura Suttin
Beyond the "Badge of Honor": Building Sustainable Systems Where Clinicians and Patients Thrive
In this episode of the Hard at Work podcast, host Ellen Whitlock Baker sits down with Dr. Laura Suttin, a family physician, consultant, and author of The Purposeful MD, to tackle the crisis of healthcare burnout.
While the medical field often treats self-sacrifice as a "badge of honor," Dr. Suttin argues that the current level of clinician fatigue is a solvable systemic issue rather than an individual failure. They dive into the reality of modern medicine, from the burdens of Electronic Medical Records (EMRs) designed for billing rather than care, to the staggering statistic that a typical family physician would need 27 hours in a day just to manage their patient panel effectively.
Dr. Suttin shares practical, high-impact solutions for healthcare leadership, emphasizing that the "system" is ultimately made of people who have the collective power to demand change. The conversation explores the promise of AI in healthcare to reduce charting burdens and the importance of "practicing at the top of your license" through team-based care.
Whether you are a clinician looking to lead without guilt or a leader striving to build a sustainable workplace culture, this episode offers a hopeful roadmap for moving beyond survival mode and reclaiming purpose in the medical profession.
What’s Inside the Episode:
The "Badge of Honor" Trap: Why the medical culture of self-sacrifice—often neglecting basic needs like food and sleep—is unsustainable and how to shift the narrative.
The 27-Hour Workday: A look at the staggering data showing that family physicians would need 27 hours in a day to manage their patient panels under current systems.
EMRs vs. Care: Understanding why Electronic Medical Records were built for billing rather than doctors, and how AI tools are starting to reduce the charting burden.
Practicing at the "Top of Your License": The importance of team-based care and why doctors shouldn't have to be the social worker and mental health professional in every visit.
Leading the Change: Why we need more clinicians in leadership roles and how to bridge the gap between clinical training and management skills.
Show Notes:
Laura's Website: drlaurasuttin.com
Laura's Book: The Purposeful MD: Creating the Life You Love Without Guilt
Laura's Podcast: Designing Healthcare that Cares — Hosted by Dr. Laura Suttin.
Laura's Course: The Clinician Leader Course — Specifically designed for new and aspiring clinician leaders.
Connect with Dr. Laura Suttin on LinkedIn
Transcript
Ellen Whitlock Baker (00:00)
Hello everyone and welcome back to an episode of the Heart at Work podcast. I'm your host Ellen Whitlock Baker and I am delighted to be joined today by Dr. Laura Sutton who is a family physician, consultant, speaker, coach and author. Hi Laura, nice to see you.
Laura Suttin (00:17)
Yeah, good to see you. Thanks for having me.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (00:19)
I'm so glad to have you on here. I was lucky to be on your podcast a few months ago, and I really appreciated the conversation and wanted you to come on here specifically because of your background in healthcare, because that is definitely a big place for burnout and tough workplaces. What do want folks to know about you beyond your bio, which I will have read?
Laura Suttin (00:43)
I'm just, really happy to talk to as many people as I can about where burnout comes from and what are the things that we can do to help address it. And it's not the grand expensive things that we tend to think of. It's actually some pretty simple things that we can do as healthcare leaders, as members of the healthcare community that can make a big impact. And I think that's where people get stuck is they feel like that it's too overwhelming a problem to address. And it is overwhelming, but that doesn't mean that we just step back and say, well, this is too big of a problem. can't do anything about it. So that's what gets me excited is that it is solvable and there is a lot of energy around it lately so that makes me hopeful too.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (01:38)
I want to get into what you're seeing as useful in that space, like, you know, what are you seeing that's working? But before that, will you tell us a little bit about why you started to get into this, you know, as a practicing doctor, but, you you took a very different path by wanting to speak about burnout and, you know, help people, help other clinicians through burnout. How did you get there?
Laura Suttin (02:06)
I found myself in scenarios where I was listening to physicians and their concerns about what was bothering them, whether that was something related to the electronic medical record that was hindering them, keeping them from getting their work done on time, or something related to a schedule. And a lot of times, I found that
we just needed to get the right voices at the table that these physicians had really valid legitimate concerns, but they weren't being heard by the people who could make an impact. And so I saw my job as to try to help put those same people together and really to address some of the situations that were again, simple, easy fixes, but something that people felt like they were screaming into the atmosphere and nobody hearing them.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (02:52)
Mm-hmm.
Laura Suttin (02:53)
One of my roles was overseeing our health and safety team. So looking at infection control and occupational health and all of that, a lot of the clinical compliance stuff. But my nurse, dyad partner and I would go visit these clinics just to check on them, see how they were doing, listen to them. it was, people just want to be heard. That was something I learned early on. just want to be heard.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (03:14)
Mm-hmm.
Laura Suttin (03:16)
I learned that it's really, how can we get the right people in the right room? How can we make people feel heard? And how can we address these simple issues that go unheard for so long?
I love doing that type of work.
So I left that healthcare system now. It's been almost two years since I left full-time entrepreneur speaking and consulting and coaching. And then I published my book in October of 2024 called The Purposeful MD, Creating the Life You Love Without Guilt. That was really geared towards was geared towards medical professionals. I wrote from my own experience as a female in a very male dominated world and some of my journey and what that was like. But I really wanted people to feel like burnout isn't, it's not your fault if you're feeling this way. And even though it's not your fault, are things, steps that you can take.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (03:54)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Laura Suttin (04:11)
While we work on the systemic issues, there are specific steps that you can take by advocating for yourself. And when you advocate for yourself, you're advocating for your fellow colleagues as well. And when you're living your life without guilt, you're giving permission for other people to do the same.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (04:29)
That's a tall order sometimes to live your life without guilt. Were you in that spot before you wrote the book?
Laura Suttin (04:34)
Yeah, it is.
Oh, absolutely. think a lot of us in healthcare, don't want to make sweeping generalizations, but I have not talked to anybody in healthcare that hasn't felt guilt for eating, sleeping. I mean, it's such a badge of honor to go a whole shift without eating, without going to the bathroom, without sleeping.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (04:51)
Yeah, yeah.
Cheers.
Laura Suttin (05:02)
my daughter was born when I was a resident and so finding time to pump was a challenge. And so the medical training environment is not conducive to taking care of ourselves as healthcare professionals. And I don't know if that's changing enough. I've been out of the training environment now for long enough. ⁓ I know well-being is
Ellen Whitlock Baker (05:19)
Mm-hmm.
Laura Suttin (05:29)
is much more at the forefront of conversations and healthcare training. But I think there's still this badge of honor of not taking care of ourselves. We sacrifice ourselves with the ethos that the patient has to be cared for at all costs, ⁓ including your own. And it's not that the patients aren't important, but if there's no one there to take care of the patients, then.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (05:47)
Yeah, including your own well-being. Yeah.
Laura Suttin (05:55)
You know, where are we? ⁓ So, there are tons of
Ellen Whitlock Baker (05:58)
Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of parallels, I think, to any workplace. What's funny, and you know I've talked about this before on your podcast, but I tell people all the time, whatever you're doing, it's not life and death. Because we make it out to be, those of us in the non-health care, first responder, fields, it's like, my god, I can't get that donor on the phone before next Wednesday, and I need to talk to them by Monday, and you just stress out and it just feels like this life and death. It's harder in your profession to actually step back, set boundaries, do the things that you might need to do to ⁓ clear yourself from that guilt and to give yourself some of the space to not get burned out.
Laura Suttin (06:41)
Mm-hmm.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (06:51)
And I know burnout is so high for healthcare. I work with nurses. I know it's very high for nurses, but I'm sure it's high for doctors as well and other professionals. So what are some of the things that in that like you are actually saving lives world and everything can be very immediate. Like, you know, if someone is needing immediate attention, you can't say, well, I'm gonna go on a break and a walk first and then I'll come back to you, right? What are some things that you talk about?
Laura Suttin (07:07)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (07:20)
What are some solutions to that or ways to manage that as a healthcare professional?
Laura Suttin (07:25)
Yeah, so even within the healthcare professional space, not the vast majority of us, but a majority of us are not in emergent situations all the time. Right, we're not performing CPR on patients all the time. And most of my experience really is more in the outpatient primary care setting and in a corporate setting too. I mean, in an emergency first responder environment, absolutely. ⁓
Ellen Whitlock Baker (07:37)
like bedside and emergency rooms.
Laura Suttin (07:54)
we took an oath, do no harm, have to take care of the patients. And even within those environments, there are things that can be done to foster an environment of taking care of the healthcare workers as human beings. Just even acknowledging what a stressful situation it is. ⁓ So that was something that when I was in a training environment,
Ellen Whitlock Baker (08:16)
Yeah.
Laura Suttin (08:23)
and a lot of it was life or death situations, we just didn't, we didn't even process when a patient passed away or these tragic situations that we encountered on a pretty regular basis. There was no allowance or space for processing those. And so I'm seeing that more, which I think is really helpful because we, yeah, we don't, normal people don't experience that stuff. And so.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (08:31)
Hmm. Yeah. Hmm. No.
Laura Suttin (08:52)
How do we create spaces to talk about it with each other, lean on each other, and allow ourselves a break when we do need a break? And some of that is, how do we make sure we're staffed appropriately? I know in the nursing environment that is massive because there's not enough nurses in this country to take care of all the people that need us. And so how do we make sure as best we can that we're
Ellen Whitlock Baker (09:03)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Laura Suttin (09:21)
were adequately staffed to allow each other those breaks. I think in the outside of that setting in a more primary care office based environment or even a corporate environment, how do we allow ourselves to actually eat lunch, ⁓ go take a walk, go to the bathroom in between patients ⁓ because it's hard to make that switch from being a
Ellen Whitlock Baker (09:39)
Hehehehe
Yeah.
Laura Suttin (09:49)
working a lot of times in an ER or on a maternity ward or whatever that looks like in the training environment to then going and working in an office where, I mean, occasionally we do have emergencies, but it's very rare where somebody really needs you right then and there. ⁓ But it feels like it. That's the thing is the patients that, I mean, I coach physicians all the time that are terrified of getting a negative review from the patients because they've waited and.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (10:08)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Laura Suttin (10:17)
And nobody, it's a tricky situation because the patients don't like to wait. And actually the doctors don't want to keep the patients waiting either. so, ⁓ but it feels to the body, a negative review feels to the body like you're having a patient, their heart stop right in front of you. It triggers that fight or flight. And once I point that out to my clients, they're like, yeah, this is.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (10:25)
No, no.
Hmm... Mm-hmm...
Laura Suttin (10:44)
I can recognize it now. can recognize that anxiety when it comes up for me when I have to attend to something that requires my attention or I want to get my charts done so I can leave by 6 p.m. and go have dinner with my family and not do charts at 10 p.m. when my kids go to bed. Really understanding that we've been conditioned in this environment that it's supposed to be all go go go that we're supposed to live off the adrenaline.
And then when we take that adrenaline away, it can be very jarring on the body.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (11:18)
⁓ for sure. we talk a lot on this podcast about systemic issues and you mentioned them earlier. They're really complicated in healthcare. Like I have a friend who's a pediatrician and just learning and understanding how little time she has to spend with patients and how it's so easy for a patient in one session to maybe come in for one thing, but then disclose that maybe they're
having suicidal thoughts or showing signs of an eating disorder or something really big, and you're supposed to keep it to 15 minutes, you know, and it's just, it's awful. What, if anything, are there systemic changes that you're seeing in healthcare? Because I'm sure it's all about profit, I'm sure, and the bottom line, but what changed to make...
You used to go to your physician and have a long time to talk with them. Now you don't. What changed and what might be getting better, if anything, about that in the future that you're seeing?
Laura Suttin (12:22)
it is very complicated. and like I said, patients aren't happy with this. Doctors aren't happy with this. and that 15 minutes includes the physician's time to complete their, their chart, which, yeah. And so, and which is not, ⁓ it's not an easy thing to do. mean, I, so dating myself a little bit, but I trained before
Ellen Whitlock Baker (12:36)
my God, I didn't know that. Wow.
Laura Suttin (12:48)
electronic medical records were as ubiquitous and I trained using a paper chart. ⁓ And in some senses, it is easier. Now, yeah, now, or you dictate into a dictaphone and somebody else transcribes it. Now, EMRs have a ton of benefits. They really are better for so many other reasons. They catch errors, ⁓ electronic medical records, exactly. But they were built for billing.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (12:57)
Yeah, you bring it in with you, you take notes. Yeah, I remember, yeah.
EMR is an electronic medical record.
Laura Suttin (13:18)
They were built to capture ⁓ the information needed to bill appropriately. They were not built by doctors or anybody in healthcare. And they are not designed for usability by physicians, nurse practitioners or nurses. And so they are very cumbersome. They're all different and they all have some benefits and pros and cons, but they are all built to be billing software essentially. So.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (13:18)
Hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Hmm.
Laura Suttin (13:47)
until somebody creates an EMR that's really designed with physicians in mind, which I haven't seen, we're starting to use things like AI to help supplement. you have, I'm seeing a lot of this in ⁓ my own personal ⁓ medical ⁓ world. And then also with my clients is using AI recorders to capture information that's discussed in the visit. Those are helpful, but then the physician still has to go back and verify.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (13:57)
Mm-hmm
Mm-hmm.
Laura Suttin (14:14)
that the AI captured everything correctly and the AI is not gonna put everything in. It's not necessarily gonna assign diagnosis codes. And these are things that are not intuitive. Diagnosis codes are not intuitive. Billing codes are not intuitive. There is so much nuance to it. And if you get it wrong, it could either mean that you lose hundreds of thousands of dollars or worst case scenario, you go to prison for Medicare fraud. So the stakes are big. ⁓ So it's a lot that...
Ellen Whitlock Baker (14:30)
Yeah.
Jeez. Yeah.
Laura Suttin (14:44)
It's a lot that physicians have to contend with.
And so now we're seeing physicians that are either joining large health systems or going into ⁓ direct primary care where they're just not accepting insurance.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (14:56)
Mm-hmm.
Laura Suttin (14:58)
The trust that we have built over decades for physician voices has really diminished, unfortunately, over the past six years.
But when we can look at both sides of the situation and look at the reality of it, then we can both agree like, yeah, nobody's enjoying this. And how can we include patients and non-health care providers in the conversation too? Because we all went into medicine to take better care of patients. That's what we love. So how do we all have a say in that?
Ellen Whitlock Baker (15:20)
Mm-mm.
Laura Suttin (15:37)
the solutions and the fixes.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (15:42)
seems to be the solution overall to workplaces everywhere, which is involve the whole, all of the employees in decision-making, in things like software selection, like you were talking about, making sure that communication lines, those concerns are getting to the right people, like you were talking about.
Laura Suttin (15:59)
Right.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (16:07)
Are you seeing any place, any specific system workplace or just sort of trend that's really, really working right now to sort of change the tide a bit?
Laura Suttin (16:20)
Yeah, I do. I do see a lot of promise with some of the AI tools that are out there ⁓ and how they capture information at the point of care. ⁓ Again, I think they they there's a lot of work that needs to be done. ⁓ But these AI AI tools and AI companies are really capitalizing on the fact that the. electronic medical record and inputting information is.
one of the biggest burdens that our clinicians have. so, and I see a lot of adoption of that within health systems. So that, I think that is really promising. I'm hopeful that we're starting to see the end of physicians sitting in charting. There were some statistics that said that for every hour a clinician spends with a patient, they have to spend two hours charting.
Where does that time come from? There was a study that came out a couple years ago that ⁓ a family physician, so that's what I do, which is kind of general practice. They call it cradle to grave. ⁓ That's the person you usually go to when you're sick or preventive care. That a family physician to take care of their typical panel of patients would need 27 hours in the day just to manage those patients.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (17:15)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. my God. Doesn't that's not real. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Laura Suttin (17:43)
That's not, that's not, that's 27 work hours. That's not, that's not real. And so
as patients, we rightly so rely on our physicians a ton. What are some other, ⁓ what are some other roles that could take some of the physicians? ⁓
Ellen Whitlock Baker (18:03)
Mm-hmm.
Laura Suttin (18:05)
you know, take the place of the physician. So the physician doesn't have to be the social worker and the mental health professional and the, ⁓ you know, the community advocate and organizer. And so I see a lot of, I see health systems starting to recognize too that it's not just the physician that the patient needs, but they need a whole team around them. And so how can we build this team approach so the physician can.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (18:07)
Yeah. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Laura Suttin (18:30)
we call it practicing at the top of your license. A physician can focus on only what the physician can do. When the patients come to me with problems that I can't fix in my medical brain, I can hand them off to a social worker or a nurse or a ⁓ mental health professional who can better help them with those issues.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (18:36)
Yeah. How amazing would that be?
And, you know, I think there's a parallel for everyone listening to this, whether you're in healthcare or not, you're probably nodding along because there is a parallel to any workplace where you're trying to solve too many things with too few resources and terrible communication, honestly, because
You don't have a direct line necessarily to a bunch of mental health professionals who are actively taking the insurance that your clients. That's not necessarily your job. ⁓ There's a lot of roadblocks between you and you recognizing that somebody could use mental health support and the actual support. ⁓
Laura Suttin (19:32)
Mm-hmm.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (19:46)
it's not any different than any other workplace where it's like, I clearly see that the problem is X, but there's 47 layers between me and the solution. I don't feel like, and I'm hearing that maybe your clients feel this way too, like they don't necessarily have the power or feel like they have the power to change the system. ⁓ And so when you're in that spot, which a lot of people are,
Laura Suttin (20:09)
Mm-hmm.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (20:15)
And the systems are old and clunky and created by people that they no longer primarily serve. What are things that you're seeing that leaders in healthcare, that MDs, what can they do on a day-to-day basis to make this work a little more smoothly or just make their life a little bit less stressful when...they just they can't get to that layer of the broken system right away or ever.
Laura Suttin (20:48)
I mean, yeah, it's tough and it's interesting because we think about, I can't change the system, but the system is made of us. so the more people within the system that stand up and say, this isn't okay anymore, and I can't either literally or figuratively operate in an environment like this, then at some point the system has to change. ⁓ And so it's...
Ellen Whitlock Baker (21:07)
Mm-hmm.
Great, great.
Laura Suttin (21:18)
I think that's the point where, yeah, we do have a voice. ⁓ I think physicians for many years have felt, ⁓ some physicians ⁓ feel disposable or are replaceable. And so how can we stand up and use our collective?
Ellen Whitlock Baker (21:37)
Yeah.
Laura Suttin (21:42)
not just physicians, but all healthcare professionals, how can we use our collective influence and our collective voice to say this isn't okay anymore? And I think that's where it helps to hear from patients too, when patients say, this is my experience. And I hear stories all the time of patients that have had negative experiences with the healthcare system and it's heartbreaking. And so again, kind of what can we do to come together and solve it? Also recognizing that
Ellen Whitlock Baker (21:55)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Laura Suttin (22:12)
A lot of our power and advocacy is in our vote. How can we vote for people that are going to support healthcare providers, support some of these programs and policies that will help our patients and the communities that our patients live in to thrive?
Ellen Whitlock Baker (22:17)
Yeah.
Hmm.
Where are you seeing that show up? Obviously, there's so many different layers of elected officials. ⁓ What are some of the more accessible ones that maybe folks can do some advocacy work with? And even as a patient, what could I do to help support that system maybe getting better?
Laura Suttin (22:58)
Yeah, I'm not an advocacy expert. ⁓ So, happy with that. know, ⁓ I felt in my own experience and have been told that advocating at the local level is more impactful than advocating at a national level. ⁓ I think a lot of times even it's as a patient just understanding the...
Ellen Whitlock Baker (23:02)
Nor am I, clearly. works. Yeah.
Laura Suttin (23:25)
struggles that our healthcare providers have and having that lens can be really helpful. It doesn't take away from our experience as patients or it doesn't excuse bad behavior that we see in our healthcare professionals. And we unfortunately do see that, but I think, know, the more, again, the more that I've talked to people that are not in healthcare, they're more likely to go into their doctor visits and.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (23:32)
Yeah.
Laura Suttin (23:52)
have a little bit more compassion or understanding or realize that maybe if I'm waiting a little bit longer than normal, maybe it's because the patient before me, like you said, may have expressed a suicidal ideation or maybe going through a crisis or maybe they just lost a child or whatever these things that come up during the course of of everyday healthcare that the physicians cannot plan for and cannot just brush off. ⁓
Ellen Whitlock Baker (23:54)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, they're not taking a long lunch. Nobody takes lunch, really. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Laura Suttin (24:21)
Right, know nobody takes a long lunch. my gosh, nobody takes lunch. They might wolf down a granola bar while they're charting or in between patients. So yeah.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (24:33)
what advice do you have to folks who are thinking about leadership positions in the healthcare field?
whether in nursing administrator or doctor, I don't know what a doctor administrator is, but I know there are ones. What advice do you have for folks who are just starting to think about going into that?
Laura Suttin (24:49)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, and usually the physician is like a medical director or something along those lines for physicians. Yeah, we absolutely need more clinicians in leadership and if somebody is thinking about it, then you're halfway there. we need people in leadership positions who have taken care of patients who've been at the bedside and can translate those skills and can enact change that is going to help our
Ellen Whitlock Baker (24:59)
Thank you.
Laura Suttin (25:21)
clinicians and help our patients. The challenge is that a lot of the skills that help us to be good clinicians, a lot of that kind of independence and I'm going to work on my own and not rely on anybody else, they can hinder us when we start to move into leadership because now you're operating in a team environment, you're dealing with a lot of political and I don't mean political like governmental but like
Ellen Whitlock Baker (25:39)
Mm-hmm.
Laura Suttin (25:46)
politics between people ⁓ and leadership skills that were not taught and are kind of suppressed in our medical training. The good news is it can be learned and can be practiced. I'm actually creating a course right now that is specifically designed for clinicians who are either new in leadership or considering going into leadership because I made a ton of mistakes when I was new as a leader and I want to...
Ellen Whitlock Baker (26:06)
Amazing.
Mm-hmm.
Laura Suttin (26:12)
If anybody can avoid the mistakes that I made, I want to help them avoid those. And I want to help to steepen that learning curve that our clinicians have when they move into leadership roles. So clinician leaders are my ⁓ sweet spot. I love working with clinician leaders, whether that's through my online course or coaching or consulting, ⁓ because there are some very practical skills that can be learned. And it's incredibly rewarding.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (26:34)
Hmm.
Laura Suttin (26:37)
my advice is do it, get help, and commit to it because we need more clinicians and leadership roles.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (26:40)
get help. Yeah.
I totally agree with that, get help. mean, obviously we're both coaches, so we're gonna, we appreciate the value of hiring a coach or getting outside help to support you. it's like any industry I talk to, no one trains their managers or leaders. It doesn't matter. I mean, as you're talking, I'm just really thinking a lot about like public schools.
Laura Suttin (27:04)
Right.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (27:10)
Principals don't necessarily get a ton of management or leadership training. Sometimes they haven't even practiced as teachers very long. Superintendents don't always have experience leading school systems or even principal experience before they get hired. So in any system, it's kind of like you're good at your job. Will you be a leader now? And your job and leadership are two very, very different things.
Laura Suttin (27:35)
Yes.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (27:39)
put all of this in the show notes, but on Laura's site, she's got free white papers. She's got her services, this online course, which is amazing. I love an online course. ⁓ Her podcast is great, where she's really talking about changing the health system for the better. Anything else you want folks to know about, like where they can find you, what they might want to check out?
Laura Suttin (28:02)
Yeah, the best is my website, drlaurassuttin.com, ⁓ that's Suttin with an I, and then my podcast, Designing Healthcare that Cares, which I've been lucky enough to have you on, so yeah.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (28:16)
and your book too, which is The Purposeful MD, which we will also link.
Laura Suttin (28:19)
Yes, Purposeful MD, Creating the Life You Love Without Guilt. It's on all major digital and print booksellers and then audible as well.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (28:29)
Well, thank you so much for being on, Laura. I really appreciate it. It's a great conversation. Yeah, I think it's good to explore how these issues parallel in every workplace. And of course, there's nuance to each one. But it really is, it does seem to always come down to.
Laura Suttin (28:33)
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (28:52)
Go to your community, listen to your community, believe your community, involve the community in the decision making, and you're going to be better off no matter where you work. And thank you for helping health care leaders and trying to make the system better for those of us who are in it, because it's been a rough go. But it'll get better. It'll get better. All right.
Laura Suttin (28:56)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it will.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (29:13)
Thanks, Laura. Have a great day and thank you everyone for and we'll see you next time.
