Episode 10: Hard at Work in Practice: Mentorship, Management, and Making Change with Mo Cotton Kelly
Bend So You Don’t Break: Leadership Lessons from Gumby and Mo
Building Culture, Giving Feedback, and Leading Through the Hard Stuff
Summary
In this episode, Ellen Whitlock Baker interviews Montique Cotton Kelly, exploring the complexities of leadership in today's world. They discuss the importance of vulnerability, the challenges of managing teams, and the necessity of finding allies in the workplace. Montique shares her experiences transitioning into leadership roles, the significance of mentorship, and the impact of current societal issues on organizational culture. The conversation emphasizes the need for authentic connections and ongoing support in leadership. In this conversation, Montique Cotton Kelly discusses the importance of flexibility in leadership through the Gumby Initiative, emphasizing the need for a collaborative culture and the operationalization of core values. They explore performance management, the significance of feedback, and how to navigate difficult relationships with bosses. The discussion also touches on the personal fulfillment found in rescuing animals, highlighting the emotional rewards of advocacy and care.
Takeaways
Vulnerability is a leadership strength, not a weakness. Being real about challenges creates space for trust, support, and connection at work.
Organizations often fail to train managers—and it shows. Effective leadership isn't innate; it needs investment, mentorship, and development.
Core values must be more than wall art. To shape culture, values need to be woven into feedback, meetings, and everyday decisions.
Performance management shouldn’t be a once-a-year ambush. Regular, clear feedback builds alignment and prevents surprise evaluations.
Leaders are responsible for culture. Building a supportive, collaborative workplace isn’t optional—it’s the job.
Notable Quotes
“You don’t go on a trapeze without a net—and you don’t lead without allies.”
“We don’t save lives here. We help transform them.”
“Being direct doesn’t mean being unkind. And being vulnerable doesn’t mean being weak.”
“Your performance review should never be a plot twist.”
“Culture isn’t a poster on a wall. It’s how people feel showing up to work on Monday.”
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Leadership Insights
02:50 First Management Experiences and Lessons Learned
06:21 The Importance of Vulnerability in Leadership
10:07 Navigating Workplace Norms and Authenticity
15:50 Finding Allies in the Workplace
25:37 Challenges of Leadership in a Changing World
31:31 The Gumby Initiative: Flexibility in Leadership
36:04 Building a Collaborative Culture
41:43 Operationalizing Core Values
46:18 Performance Management and Feedback
53:01 Navigating Difficult Boss Relationships
58:36 The Importance of Rescuing Animals
Keywords
leadership, vulnerability, management, workplace culture, mentorship, authenticity, allyship, higher education, organizational change, employee engagement, leadership, culture, flexibility, core values, performance management, feedback, workplace relationships, animal rescue
Transcript
Ellen Whitlock Baker (00:01.866)
Okay, I think we're ready. Great, great. and I didn't mention, but I edit these. So if you ever want to like stop and be like, I want to say that a different way or cut that out or whatever, please feel free. Okey doke. All right.
Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of the hard at work podcast. I am so thrilled to be having my friend mentor.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (00:27.768)
just amazing person in general, Mo Cotton Kelly on the podcast today. And we're gonna get into what is life like for a high level leader right now and what are some things we can all take away from talking to Mo. So welcome Mo.
Montique Cotton Kelly (00:43.909)
Thank you, Ellen, for having me. I am so excited to be a part of this.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (00:48.032)
I'm so grateful you're here. So we start out every episode with, can you give us the Wikipedia entry of you? So people know a little bit about you.
Montique Cotton Kelly (01:00.027)
Yikes. I'll start here. From Ohio, came to UConn almost 11 years ago, worked for Bowling Green State University as an admissions counselor and then an alumni person and an executive director. And then fast forward, I come to UConn in 2014 as their executive director and AVP for alumni.
During that time, we dissolved the Alumni Association at the UConn, taking it from two 501C3s to one. We integrated into the foundation, and I have been working in various roles in the foundation since 2015. On a personal note, I'm married. I have two awesome children, one who's going to be graduating in six weeks and will be attending UConn as a freshman in the fall. Yeah. Yeah.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (01:50.934)
I can't believe that. my gosh, that's amazing. I don't know if I knew that. That's great. Congrats to him. If you're listening and you are not in the broader world of either sports or higher ed, UConn is University of Connecticut, which I would assume many people know, but some people might, right? And Mo is wearing the cutest UConn hat with a little husky on it. Represent.
Montique Cotton Kelly (01:57.669)
Thank you.
Montique Cotton Kelly (02:08.122)
No, that is true.
Montique Cotton Kelly (02:17.262)
We always represent.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (02:21.622)
You've had quite a career and you've been for me, and we'll get into this later, but definitely a mentor, but someone who's really helped me understand how to step into the higher level leadership roles because it's a big jump from like your first time managing a person to managing a whole program and a whole team. So I'm wondering if you can take us back to what was your first position as a manager? Like really that first...
Montique Cotton Kelly (02:41.795)
It is.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (02:50.894)
not high level, but just first time you were in charge of other people or a whole program. And what would you like to go back and tell that version of Mo now?
Montique Cotton Kelly (03:01.37)
That's a great question. So the first management experience was when I was in the Alumni Association at Bowling Green State University. I came to the Alumni Association in 1999 and was an assistant director doing alumni engagement, volunteer work, had just been in the admissions office previously to do some of their big visit days. And about two years in, I was asked to take on a student alumni group.
and another staff member. And I remember, and this staff member was a colleague. So we were at the same level, but because of some changes within the association, they needed to create some management opportunity. And it was fascinating because, and I still say this now, companies do a terrible job of training people to be managers. And even though I felt very supported at Bowling Green,
Ellen Whitlock Baker (03:36.704)
Mm-hmm. Mm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (04:00.184)
I don't think I was given really great tools and made some mistakes. Definitely reacted, I think, a little emotionally when conflict arose. Thankfully, I also had a mentor who I was able to, who was not even associated with Bowling Green anymore and was able to reach out to her to say, you know, I'm struggling because one, I have so many things that I have to be doing.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (04:02.766)
Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (04:28.89)
but I am also in charge of people and I don't feel armed with the right tool to effectively engage. Like I can have the conversation the first time, but I wasn't prepared for other people's emotion in a conversation or that when you call something out and doing it kindly is fine, but if you're not direct, then.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (04:55.438)
Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (04:56.58)
They don't get it, right? And so I really struggled and I'm a completely direct person. And so really struggled with that. And so what I would tell, my gosh, 29 year old Mo, I would say ask for help sooner because it's really the organization's responsibility to help navigate that for you.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (05:16.61)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (05:23.362)
And we as leaders forget that we were once new and we were once young and we were once afraid of the conversations because we weren't properly prepped. And there's no perfect time to become a manager. Let me be really clear. And there are some organizations that do an incredible job of manager training. We're actually implementing more of that here at the UConn foundation, but sometimes the necessity of having someone in a space because you're kind of at a crisis mode.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (05:26.574)
Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (05:52.341)
Lets us forget that this is also a person who we're expecting to manage people and we're actually putting them on a boat by themselves. And so I would say ask for help sooner. There's nothing wrong with it. In fact, it is actually empowering and it triggers your supervisor or management team like, wait, we really didn't do the thing and this person needs our help. And so
Ellen Whitlock Baker (06:00.568)
Yeah.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (06:18.254)
Hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (06:21.122)
I would just, whenever you're feeling that way in a training situation as you're becoming a new manager, if you don't feel like you were guided and had those tools, ask for help sooner. It will save you in the end.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (06:31.788)
Yeah. Yeah, we've talked about that a lot on here of like often, and I think this is true in all sectors as far, or most sectors as far as I'm learning. It's like, hey, you're good at your job. Why don't you manage people now? And usually it's kind of you get a half baked maybe training that everyone in the institution or the company has to take when they manage a new person and that box is checked. And they're like, cool, you had management training.
and we have this lack of ongoing support. And that's where I like love to talk about coaching because it can be a really helpful thing for people who are going through it. And it's really helpful to have someone who is not your boss helping you through, which is why you as a mentor has been have been really helpful for me. I know your mentors have been helpful for you. My coaches have been helpful for me in that way because you and your boss have a very specific relationship and it's a little more transactional.
Montique Cotton Kelly (07:27.822)
Right.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (07:30.124)
So having this trusted person that you can really kind of say, be vulnerable with, can be really helpful.
Montique Cotton Kelly (07:35.439)
Yes. Yeah, vulnerability is so important. It's a trait that I lead with. I mean, I think, you know, you and I have known each other for quite some time. And as a leader in our organization, one, that's my natural disposition is highly empathetic, engaging, really want to make sure and transparent and also direct. And so for me to show vulnerability, it's something that my staff needs to see that I'm human.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (07:43.523)
Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (08:05.35)
There are times I think in particular for women, we have navigated these waters that have been held by primarily white men. And so you think you have to act like a white man to succeed. And I would say that had been the case, right? I know plenty of women who are or have been in top level CEO, CFO seats and are like, look, I had to bow up like a dude.
Because I wasn't taken seriously and God forbid have some vulnerability. And thankfully I would say over my tenure here at UConn in particular, I'm saying the vulnerability for me is just who I am. And I wanna make sure people know that I am a human. That's why I'm always like, I'm a mother, I am a wife, I am a friend. There are multiple pieces of my personality that make up what I bring to you in my office.
Montique Cotton Kelly (09:01.474)
And I actually don't separate them in the same way. Many people are fantastic at compartmentalizing and like you get one person at work and another one. And to me, that's exhausting in particular for women. And that is not something I'm willing to do. And so that vulnerability piece is a kernel of my leadership style that I wish more people would feel comfortable leaning into. It doesn't mean that I don't have high accountability.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (09:05.197)
Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (09:28.78)
It doesn't mean that I will have a hard and difficult conversation with you, but it just means that we're all people in this. And thankfully my work, I don't save lives. I help transform lives. And so I don't have to be on the front lines dealing with all of these things. We actually can do the right things and help people elevate our university. And to me, that's exciting, but it takes.
Montique Cotton Kelly (09:55.501)
in the trenches with your team and a level of vulnerability that you're comfortable with. Not everyone's as comfortable within their skin as I am. And that took years of manifestation as well.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (09:57.368)
Mm-hmm.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (10:07.956)
Yeah, how did that first come about for you? Because we're talking a lot here about how the workplace is not safe for everybody to show up authentically. And we talk particularly about women of color in that case because of these norms that are keeping us in this very patriarchal, you know, white male centered system, even though there's a lot of us who aren't white men who are in positions of power now, but the system still
Montique Cotton Kelly (10:28.376)
No.
Montique Cotton Kelly (10:36.356)
Great.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (10:37.696)
advantages people who act like white men, you know, from like the 50s, you know? And so, yeah, and it is mad men. it's, we like to think we've made a lot of progress and I'm sure, and we have for sure. But when was the first point? Cause you were saying, and I think people in our age group have an interesting challenge and I've talked about it before, in that we were raised at work by women who,
Montique Cotton Kelly (10:42.01)
Correct. For mad men, it's mad men.
Thanks.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (11:06.732)
Had to act like men or thought they did. And so what I grew up seeing was that. So don't show vulnerability. Very much Sheryl Sandberg, lean in. And then that changed for me over time, often because I learned from my staff and my teams, like, this is not helpful to you. But what about you? When did that first start changing for you?
Montique Cotton Kelly (11:08.762)
Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (11:29.486)
Great.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (11:35.32)
How are you able to, I'll use the word lean in in a different way, how are you able to lean into it and embrace it and feel comfortable enough showing some of that vulnerability or sort of resisting some of those, we don't talk about feelings at work norms.
Montique Cotton Kelly (11:50.799)
You know, it's interesting. can't recall the moment, but when I was an admissions counselor at Bowling Green, I think I've always had a level of confidence. So I'm a very confident person in general. I think the...
Ellen Whitlock Baker (12:02.776)
Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (12:09.558)
Admissions work that I did allowed me to do a couple of things. It allowed me to hone a craft of public speaking because I had to always talk about the university and I had to really kind of sell it, right, in a way. But I was also very authentic in the way I delivered conversations. And I think the confidence allowed me to really lean into who I was. Like, I know this work, but no one can take that away from me. And I think
Ellen Whitlock Baker (12:37.646)
Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (12:38.978)
If you're okay, if you know your craft, like I tell my students all the time and colleagues were like, my gosh, I want to do this, I want to do this. And I would say just hone your craft, like be the best at it for you, not for everybody else. Like you have to become the person you need to be. And then others will see that. Like I firmly, firmly believe it. And you know, I've done executive presence conversations, know, presentations and different things. And part of it is, is
Ellen Whitlock Baker (12:49.303)
Mm-hmm.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (12:58.414)
Hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (13:09.056)
not taking yourself so seriously. So while you hone your craft and you get better at the things that you need to do, that humanistic element, I've made mistakes. I fumbled. I do this, but I do it in a way that I don't let it distract me from my message either. But we're not robots. I've said this for 20 some years and I have been able, and it came really through the admissions work, to be honest with you, that that vulnerability is, because I'd make a mistake and
Ellen Whitlock Baker (13:25.196)
Mm-hmm.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (13:37.698)
Sure. No.
Montique Cotton Kelly (13:38.423)
No one died. People may have laughed. I've, you know, I can't even tell you how many times I've interchanged the word, the letters FASFA during, you know, a presentation. And I think part of it is knowing, having confidence in yourself allows you to just be a lot more vulnerable than you would be because when people aren't vulnerable, it's because they're protecting, like, I must protect this persona that you see because it's so important.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (13:46.479)
Ha ha.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (14:04.718)
Yeah. Yeah.
Montique Cotton Kelly (14:07.714)
And I'm like, ugh, that's again, hard work and exhausting. Like if people were more vulnerable, they'd be freer because they wouldn't be worrying about trying to shrink so that they can be seen, right? And so for me, I just, over time have just been myself because that is the only person I know how to be.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (14:13.922)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Can you think back on, or even recently, because things are things the way they are, but can you think back on a time where you really had that tested or where maybe you first realized, oh, this system is not going to support me. I don't need to act like that in order to succeed here. I feel confident enough to
to go forward because I totally agree with you and I feel similarly, and I have a lot of privilege in order to be able to say that. Like I am a leader or I was, I'm a white woman, know, like I exist in a workplace that is not necessarily all male. you know, so I know that for some people it's just really hard to even get to the place where they feel like they can be.
Montique Cotton Kelly (15:15.45)
Mm-hmm.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (15:34.424)
vulnerable. And I love what you said about like, you know, hone your craft. But if someone I'm also super extroverted, and I think you are too. And so like for people who that doesn't come as easily for them, what would you say would be helpful?
Montique Cotton Kelly (15:50.071)
Well, I will say the other part of this is, you know, you have to have allies in the field and you, I will say, you know, it's so funny because my really good friend, Brown, who is at Bowling Gracie University, she and I met happenstance in, the, the late nineties at a African American black, staff event. Neither one of us wanted to go.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (15:56.023)
Yes.
Montique Cotton Kelly (16:18.66)
It's so funny. Neither one of us wanted to go, but I was a new professional. She was new to Bowling Green and she is a introvert of the highest order, of the highest order. So you can imagine us, yin and yang. And we connected immediately. We both didn't want to be there. We connected. We ended up being roommates. She's a godmother of my son. I mean, we have a long relationship, but I will say, you know,
Ellen Whitlock Baker (16:29.816)
Mm-hmm.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (16:33.708)
You
Ellen Whitlock Baker (16:42.299)
my God.
Montique Cotton Kelly (16:47.844)
having her as an ally. She didn't work in my department. She worked on campus. She was another woman of color. She had incredible experience, similar experiences because we were one of few, right? We were sprinkled throughout Bowling Green as well. And we have this incredible relationship and allies in the field can be whoever you need to be your authentic self and who can check you because
Ellen Whitlock Baker (16:54.167)
Mm-hmm.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (17:13.72)
Yeah. Yeah.
Montique Cotton Kelly (17:17.146)
It's harder, I actually think, to find those allies in your own department where you're trying to be open and honest and authentic, but also knowing like, oh my gosh, the system in place in my department isn't going to support me in the same way. So who do I know or who can I find in particular in your work environment, whether it's a different department, whether you're on a campus, whether you're working for a for-profit.
Allies in the field really helps surround you in some comfort that you can actually be, because they can kind of see what's going on in your building, in your department, at your job, but they're not in it with you on a day to day and showing up. And sometimes I would just call them like, girl, can we talk about what's going on here?
Ellen Whitlock Baker (18:04.354)
Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (18:13.038)
And we do, right? And I think that's for, and I will say for women in particular, for people of color or any other group, right? Like you have to find these allies because I wouldn't be here without them. And yes, I'm confident I've honed my craft. I'm a high functioning extrovert. I believe in the work that I do, but I wouldn't be here if I didn't have a group of people who were allowing me to be my authentic self and encouraging me and knowing I had a safe space to land.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (18:42.626)
Yeah.
Montique Cotton Kelly (18:42.81)
if something happened, right? And so part of showing up in that space is making sure you kind of have a little protection. can't, you know, you don't go on a trapeze without a net. And I would also say you have to test the theory too. So you can't just sit back on this and say, is an oppressive situation. have no out. Look around because I guarantee you there are other people feeling the same way.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (18:51.948)
Yeah.
Montique Cotton Kelly (19:11.386)
thinking the same things and pay attention to what's going on in your department, at your company. Like finds like, and I think that is so important. And I would say Ana was that for me. And again, we are different people. She's like, I'm exhausted after a meeting. I'm like, give me 12 more. But we created space for one another at our university that
Ellen Whitlock Baker (19:19.714)
Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (19:41.541)
transcended the systems that were in place because part of it is systematic. And I think the other part of this is understanding that it's systematic because people many times just think it's about one or two things. No, this is a patriarchal system that's been literally the founding of our country. And so you're trying to scale back hundreds of years of patriarchy. And so you're not going to change it overnight, but you can find those allies in the field and
Ellen Whitlock Baker (19:51.65)
Mm-hmm.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (20:00.536)
Heh
Montique Cotton Kelly (20:11.322)
get that comfortableness with who you are and the support that you need to kind of lean in authentically. And I will just say it is daunting and scary and it's a risk. 99 % of the time, the risk is worth it.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (20:29.134)
How would you do that if you were just starting out and maybe weren't naturally a golden retriever like I am and you are, who just likes every, wants to meet you? Who are you? Cool, I wanna talk to you. I had no shame in being like, hey Mo, can we connect after this conference? Cause I like you. But not everybody's like that. so,
Montique Cotton Kelly (20:40.058)
Great.
Montique Cotton Kelly (20:44.921)
Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (20:50.927)
Right.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (20:54.454)
What are some ways, I love the idea of going to some sort of affinity group or ERG gathering, because that's a great place to meet people who might be facing similar challenges. What are some other ways to find those allies and ask them to be part of your world?
Montique Cotton Kelly (21:04.474)
Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (21:13.102)
Well, I think also pay attention to what's going on in your office or in your department. maybe not even just an affinity group, but if there is something happening, I'll use the campus because that's where I'm spent all my time in higher education and working for the foundation. We're kind of fortunate because we have programs, right? We have the Amplify program at UConn. have other ways, I would say volunteer for a committee. there are really, cause you'll find out
Ellen Whitlock Baker (21:16.654)
Yeah.
Montique Cotton Kelly (21:42.661)
who's on an ally and who is not pretty quickly. But they're kind of safe entries into checking out the landscape. If you're on a college campus or in a company that's really big and they do events, even though you may not be a high functioning extrovert, go to the event, see what it's about, see others, because you do have to put yourself out there a little. But you can take...
Ellen Whitlock Baker (21:44.33)
Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (22:11.202)
All the time, look at the event, join a committee, do some volunteers. I mean, there are so many ways that are low risk for you to gain some knowledge on who's who. And I would say don't retreat or even, you you're on a Zoom and someone makes a comment like that resonates with you, side chat them and say, my gosh, I feel the same way. And that's private. It's just one to one.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (22:35.906)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (22:40.09)
And you can begin to build, you you can use technology no better way than on zoom or teams or Webex or whatever platform you want. If you're in a conversation, a global conversation presentation, I always like, yeah, I feel that right. mean, and it's pretty easy to self-select and to kind of oversee that. So I would say use programs, opportunities, volunteer experiences.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (22:54.936)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (23:08.31)
in your company or on your campus to at least check it out because you're not helping yourself by not checking it out. Like you don't have, and you can do it safely without a lot of risk. And so I know again, high functioning introvert here, but those nice little passive ways to engage, because I guarantee you somebody's feeling the exact same way. And they're just waiting for another person to do the same thing.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (23:14.307)
Yeah.
Montique Cotton Kelly (23:37.571)
And I will say to my high functioning extroverts out there, it is also your job to bring someone along with you. So if you're at an event and you see someone who's kind of not engaging or kind of in the back, it's your job, high functioning extrovert to go to that person, introduce yourself and have a conversation. Because you might know someone that that person could really flourish with as well. Same.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (23:58.562)
You bet.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (24:03.714)
That's my favorite thing to do is like, and people sometimes laugh at me because I'm like, hey, this person and this person, you both have, you know, a lab, like a dog or whatever. But it's like, I love to categorize those things about people of like, they might have this in common or you both love anime or whatever it is. And who knows what happens.
Montique Cotton Kelly (24:14.553)
Right.
Montique Cotton Kelly (24:21.21)
Yeah, whatever it is. you you both live in the same, I bet you all didn't even know you lived in the same complex, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? So it's hard. I recognize it's hard, but it's so important. And now with technology, it's lonely out there, right? It's even lonely for folks like us unless we're constantly thinking about how we're engaging interacting. So I can only imagine for someone who's not comfortable putting themselves out there.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (24:28.694)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Montique Cotton Kelly (24:49.966)
having now technology which could be a blessing or a curse depending on who you are.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (24:53.134)
You
Yeah. Did you say you're a high functioning introvert? Okay. Okay. You said introvert earlier and I was like, wait, what? Did I read you wrong all this time?
Montique Cotton Kelly (24:59.162)
extrovert. I'm a high functioning extrovert.
Montique Cotton Kelly (25:04.795)
no, no, no, no, no, you did not read me wrong. Sorry, misspoke. I'm a high functional expert. I know exactly who I am. Yeah, I know who I am.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (25:09.23)
was like, you're very high functioning. No, just kidding. I love it. I love it so much. So in your new role, I mean, it's not that new anymore, but really being in charge of people and culture, that's a huge responsibility. And you and I have talked a little bit about some of the challenges, but the exciting things that you get to do right now for people in leadership positions, particularly people who might be in charge of people.
writ large like you are or of a team, what do you think is the hardest, like what are the things keeping you up at night right now about being that kind of leader?
Montique Cotton Kelly (25:40.654)
Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (25:49.646)
Well, the state of our world is actually keeping me up at night.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (25:55.213)
Yeah.
Montique Cotton Kelly (25:56.111)
The first hundred days of this presidency and the attack, not only just on higher education, that's a sidebar to the attack of people, people of color, people who are marginalized. That keeps me up at night because our staff is made up of all people. And so what keeps me up at night is what's keeping them up at night. If there is someone who...
Ellen Whitlock Baker (26:17.901)
Yeah.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (26:22.349)
Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (26:23.95)
you know, has DACA in their family or someone who is receiving a scholarship and now will not be able to receive the scholarship. And it's our job at the foundation, like we raise money for the university for whatever the donor would love. And so part of what keeps me up at night is what's keeping my staff up at night. And how do we have a conversation about while yes, this current presidency is attacking us, but the core of our work
Ellen Whitlock Baker (26:43.063)
Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (26:53.71)
does not change. Like the University of Connecticut is a public land grant, sea grant institution, and therefore is inclusive of all, right? And provides access. And our staff who have to engage with alumni and donors to talk about now, I'm so sorry, we cannot award your scholarship because it has this language in it, makes all of us feel icky. I mean, we're talking about five years since George Floyd
Ellen Whitlock Baker (27:02.168)
Mm-hmm.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (27:18.805)
Yeah.
Montique Cotton Kelly (27:22.914)
and what transpired during that time. And now it feels like we're all selling out. So what keeps me up at night on that end is what's going on with my staff in the real day to day, what's going on in their families and who they're connected with. And then ultimately how we're having these conversations because we still need to provide access for students to come to the University of Connecticut. The other thing that keeps me up at night is
Ellen Whitlock Baker (27:29.718)
Mm-hmm.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (27:34.573)
Yeah.
Montique Cotton Kelly (27:52.793)
the changing landscape of the workplace and how do we make our hybrid staff feel connected to the mission of the work knowing that one fourth of our organization has turned over in two and a half years. And so we're onboarding new people, we're trying to get them to understand our value system. I have a new CEO who started like 15 months ago.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (28:09.9)
Oof. Yeah.
Montique Cotton Kelly (28:19.534)
We just launched campaign. So my other part that keeps me up at night is how do I find and connect every staff member to our core mission? Regardless if you're the janitor, if you're processing gifts, if you're the engagement person, if you're the researcher, if you're our legal arm, how do you feel connected to what we're talking about on the regular? And then finally, what keeps me up at night is culture. Our culture has shifted a number of
Ellen Whitlock Baker (28:43.996)
Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (28:49.55)
years just because of consistent change. And so what is the culture we want to create, honestly, right? Let's define that. And we're doing that. But then how do we, again, connect in? Because we're also not a utopia. And we also have a business to run. So there are rules. There are regulations. And there are ways that we can execute that. it really, it's all interconnected. But those are the things that keep me up at night is
Ellen Whitlock Baker (29:08.365)
Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (29:18.916)
How do I have a staff that's motivated and wants to come to work every day, whether that's online or in person, and feels like they're having a good day and that they're valued and respected and, you know, yeah.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (29:31.809)
Yeah.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (29:35.48)
That's huge. It's not, let's all be a family and best friends. It's, I just want to feel valued and respected and like, I know what I'm supposed to do every day and that I'm being acknowledged for doing it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Montique Cotton Kelly (29:40.567)
No.
Montique Cotton Kelly (29:44.537)
Yeah. And I want people who want to work there, right? I want people who want to do that. And so that keeps me up at night because, know, in every business, there's people who are like, this is just a job and it is, but I also want you to want that job. And I want you to want that job in our organization. And so it's our responsibility to make sure you know what the capacity of that job is, the rules of engagement, and then how we reward folks. But those are the things that keep me up at night.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (30:11.66)
Yeah, and I like what you said there because you're very much saying it's our responsibility as leaders of the organization to set that culture, to create those expectations, to create those rules of engagement so people will want to work and enjoy their job or at least have a reason for being there. And a lot of what I have felt over the years in workplaces is that it's on the employee.
Montique Cotton Kelly (30:31.651)
Right.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (30:38.904)
to figure that out. It's like, this is how we work. So you either like it or you don't. And I know people are trying so hard. everywhere I've ever worked has had lots of people trying really hard to make that different. But it's really hard to do because, like you said, we're fighting this system, especially universities, which is the most hierarchical with tenure and all that crap.
Montique Cotton Kelly (30:42.085)
Come join us and good luck.
Montique Cotton Kelly (30:51.876)
Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (30:56.428)
Yes.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (31:08.876)
It's just really hard to make change that is different than the status quo, or at least I found that. So what are some ways that you are bringing together that culture at work? particularly in the landscape you named, which is that not everybody's at work every day, if not ever. how do you, this sort of post-COVID culture building at work is hard. And what are some things that have worked for you?
Montique Cotton Kelly (31:12.878)
Yes.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (31:38.774)
Or not worked.
Montique Cotton Kelly (31:39.075)
It's hard, it's hard. However, again, the vulnerability piece comes into play here too, because I have said this is hard work to my staff and all of the positions I've held, you know, I feel very strongly about my Gumby Initiative from way back when about, you know, we are all the Gumby Initiative. I don't know if I ever shared that with you. So the long and the short of it is, I don't even have Gumby here with me, but you know, Gumby, flexible, bendable.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (31:47.075)
Mm-hmm.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (31:56.674)
What's Gumby?
I don't know.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (32:06.328)
Well, for those of you who are listening, who are not in your 40s or higher, Gumby was a green flexible guy, cartoony thing. No, he was stop motion, stop motion animation or whatever. Anyway, but he's stretched any which way.
Montique Cotton Kelly (32:11.796)
Yes. correct. Correct. He was stop motion, but came. He was flexible. He's bendable. He did all the things. You can Google Eddie Murphy, Gumby, Saturday Night Live and get a very different depiction of that for those of you who don't know who Gumby is. But when I got to UConn, a couple of things. I'd come in and you don't want to talk about culture. I really...
Ellen Whitlock Baker (32:28.749)
God, that's my favorite.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (32:34.913)
You
Montique Cotton Kelly (32:40.602)
It was a different culture before I got there and I knew that we would have to do some hard work. And as we were dissolving the alumni association, you know, it was very public, but I had to care for my staff because they were the ones that were taking some of the brunt of the conversation. So I gave every single person a Gumby and I said, there will be times when we are going to have to, I'm going to ask you to bend and in ways that you do not think that you can, but
Ellen Whitlock Baker (32:55.232)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (33:10.028)
Our Gumby initiative, or the Gumby principle is that we're all in this together. We're all bending and maneuvering together because I don't want to break you. That's not the goal. And that's why we have Gumby because Gumby is the ultimate in flexibility and maneuverability. And so I've implemented the Gumby initiative slash principle whenever we go through tough times. And you don't really know that something catches on until COVID when one of our staff members literally did a clip every day of Gumby doing different things.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (33:39.47)
How cute.
Montique Cotton Kelly (33:39.647)
but you know, it's silly and it doesn't, you know, it people decorated Gumby, but when I had to lay off a ton of staff, I said, we're initiating the Gumby principle. This is really hard work. And these are some of your colleagues. And so I need you to bend and lean across the aisle and talk to your colleagues and see how they're doing. And, so part of that culture shift and how we do that is acknowledging that culture is a challenge to manifest when you have.
170 people from different areas of work, but our core values. So we lean into our core value system. We actually lean into staff led conversations, right? And so it's not just orders on high. It's we have a gap analysis team and they're giving us information on how we have to evolve as a company. And so we're doing pulse surveys and
Ellen Whitlock Baker (34:32.323)
Mmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (34:35.726)
having people be really candid about what's going on and also recognizing that, you know, we were not a, this culture is an evolutionary concept, but we're defining that or redefining that as our current leader and campaign ironically gives us this opportunity to actually lean into that. And like I said, when we first started, I think we were talking, we just came off of a week of insanity, but we brought every staff member back for five days.
Remote, hybrid, yep, everybody here for five days. And we felt it was really important for people to see how UConn gives goes, right? Our 36 hour crowdfunding initiative. We wanted people to understand what campaign was all about. We've been talking about it every month, but we also recognize people don't know each other. And so we actually took the time to get headshots. And so now when you're emailing your team, like we all have headshots, so at least
Ellen Whitlock Baker (35:06.519)
in person.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (35:35.531)
Okay.
Montique Cotton Kelly (35:35.745)
you can see someone. So all of that leads into the culture that you want to create. And so it's evolutionary. But these are some of the intentional things that we are doing to make sure people understand the kind of culture we want, the kind of business we want to be. And to be honest, there's no better time to be on a college campus when commencement's happening. And so we're like, please walk around campus. See the reason why you're here.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (35:59.363)
Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (36:04.288)
do these things because if you think you're only researching and you live in Florida, it's hard for you to feel connected. And so it's really important that we bring our staff back in four times a year, all staff, for a couple of days of meetings, conversations, initiatives, and social. And that is hard when you also have a fundraising number that is very big. And so you have to...
Ellen Whitlock Baker (36:29.464)
Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (36:30.926)
Put that in there, but we're very intentional. We celebrate milestones. We do a lot of different things to acknowledge staff and let staff acknowledge staff too, not just leadership acknowledging staff. Like, it's amazing, right?
Ellen Whitlock Baker (36:42.432)
Yeah, yeah, that peer nominated stuff is amazing. That's always felt the most meaningful to me.
Montique Cotton Kelly (36:50.178)
And the most authentic because it's like, Ellen, thank you so much for doing this. Here's a quick shout out to you. So there are very intentional things that I would say I lead, but there are way more that our staff lead so that they can also because it's our job. It's everyone's job to help create the culture. It's not just Mo's job. Who's the yes.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (37:05.838)
you
It is. If you create the guardrails and the sort of overall as the leaders, then people can, you know, be involved as well.
Montique Cotton Kelly (37:15.64)
Yeah. And as leaders, you have to put your ego aside as well because we don't know it all. I don't know it all. I'm still learning. I'm still willing to be like, my God, I didn't even think about that. Thank you. You know, the core of all of this work is putting your ego aside. Whether you're a leader, manager, if you think you're like a new person, like I've only been here 18 months and I need to, ego does not play well like it used to.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (37:44.11)
Mm-mm, mm-mm. And that's hard to learn. I've learned that for me it can manifest in how I respond to criticism or things that have happened to me in the workplace, definitely more when I was younger. But I'd get all outraged about things. And really it was my ego that had gotten, that taken a beating. And you have to piece, and sometimes it's both. So not everything is one thing or another. It's like,
Montique Cotton Kelly (37:45.284)
That's not something you need to bring to the table.
Montique Cotton Kelly (38:05.24)
Yep, got bruised. Yeah.
Montique Cotton Kelly (38:12.142)
Right.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (38:12.342)
Yes, my ego took a beating, but also the way that I was told that piece of feedback wasn't great. And so there's all sorts of things to parse through there. I want to go back for a couple of things. First, for those of our listeners who might just be my mom who do not know what a campaign is, would you explain campaign very briefly?
Montique Cotton Kelly (38:17.807)
Right.
Montique Cotton Kelly (38:31.287)
sure. So a comprehensive campaign is just a long range fundraising initiative for primarily universities, but any nonprofit, know, big brothers and big sisters, do campaigns, the American Cancer Society. And so it's over a designated time period. Ours is 10 years. So we just launched UConn. Our goal, relatively modest compared to our aspirational peers.
is 1.5 billion. We're at like, have 730 million right now. And really, it's about elevating the brand of the university. Our campaign follows four pillars. And again, these pillars are not unique to any organization. It's about students, it's about people, it's about health and wellness and research, right? And so we're really trying to galvanize our alumni and donor population to help us propel UConn.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (39:02.231)
Oof.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (39:19.48)
Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (39:27.534)
beyond us, right? Universities and colleges and organizations will be here beyond us. And so our job is to secure that through a campaign. Some campaigns are long, some are short, some are specifically with buildings. Ours incorporates all of
Ellen Whitlock Baker (39:29.378)
Mm-hmm.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (39:36.713)
I love that.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (39:45.007)
basically a blitz for raising money, for rallying everybody behind some this cause and these pillars. And campaigns get extra marketing support and extra event support and extra people. So when Mo was saying she was at a launch last week, that's like massive party, big, big, huge thing. I'm very, thank you for being here with me, because I'm sure you're tired and so is your team.
Montique Cotton Kelly (39:47.361)
Mm-hmm.
Yes, it's a-
Montique Cotton Kelly (39:57.645)
extra people.
Montique Cotton Kelly (40:06.266)
400 people.
My pleasure. Sure.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (40:13.568)
I also want to talk about the gap analysis team that you mentioned. That sounds very cool. Did you say that was made up of just general people from the organization?
Montique Cotton Kelly (40:16.9)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (40:22.744)
Yeah, yes, we each nominated a person and my CEO put together this team and she worked with them and they did some work for us to assess kind of where, because we, this came on the heels of a major restructure that we did last summer when I was stepping into the chief people officer role and shifting some responsibilities. And our CEO was like, look, I know there's gaps. Like we're going to do this because we know that we have to, but we're in it.
in the minutiae, we need someone to be like, whoa, you have to think about these things as you go along. So the gap analysis team put together a report for us that we're still teasing through and making sure our whole goal was to get to launch because that was incredibly important. And there's been, you know, they're going to take the organization through a values exercise. Our core values are five years old, I think, maybe. And I think that it's time to refresh them or make sure
Ellen Whitlock Baker (41:04.462)
Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (41:22.06)
litmus test them, are these the values that still ring true? How do we kind of evolve the conversation? So again, they're going to lead the organization in a values exercise so that, again, that's through the organization. It's not just management saying, these are our core values today. And you should love them and adhere to them.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (41:40.119)
I love that.
And when you say we, that's the leadership team, I'm guessing, all the VPs. Okay. When you talk about values, so values is such a hot topic because it is so often, and I love, Brene Brown describes like when you just do a bunch of values and you put them on the wall, she calls it like the motivational cat poster. know, that just sort of sits on the wall and doesn't, it doesn't mean anything, you know? And so.
Montique Cotton Kelly (41:45.37)
Yes, our senior cabinet.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (42:11.702)
She's definitely someone who's talked about operationalizing your values a ton, especially in her Dare to Lead work. And it's really hard. And I've been through some values exercises, and we've tried really hard to bring everybody in. How do you make sure that those values are not just sitting on the wall, that they're actually something that people are thinking about all the time?
Montique Cotton Kelly (42:16.622)
Yes.
Montique Cotton Kelly (42:34.916)
Well, we use the language. It's actually connected to your performance management. we really just, you so we, and we also, you have to define, I will just say definitions of your values are your definitions of your values, not the Wikipedia version or some glossary. Like, so we've identified the definitions of these values for the UConn Foundation.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (42:38.676)
That's the key right there. How do you do that? That's amazing.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (42:57.773)
Right.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (43:02.136)
So define them. Yeah, got it. Yep.
Montique Cotton Kelly (43:03.47)
and we define them for us. And it's, know, accountability, integrity, empathy, kindness, collaboration, communication. Those are ours. And I can see, I can see we're going to evolve a few of them just based on the tenor of where we're at right now. However, the first piece on the evaluation is does this person adhere to our core values based on these definitions? It's a yes or no. You provide feedback.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (43:30.212)
nice.
Montique Cotton Kelly (43:32.795)
And it's a hard conversation because then someone say, someone was mean to me. I'm like, that's not unkind. I need you not to put that into the core values. Let's unpack what that actually means. But as a manager, we have to live the values. You have to use it in everyday language and tie it to performance and continue to have a conversation. We just had a conversation, you know, the other day about staff.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (43:41.613)
Yeah.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (43:54.434)
Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (44:01.112)
Are they leaning into our values? Is that our value-driven mission? There are just ways that, and it's not on a poster, nowhere in our building. It's maybe on our website. It's on our internal communication, but you have to breathe life into them and talk about our values all the time. So then when you're assessing someone's ability to adhere to the values, you have concrete information, but you have to talk to
Ellen Whitlock Baker (44:29.132)
Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (44:31.14)
Talk it, walk it, integrate it, and don't be afraid of it. And like we're talking about an evolution. Like we think we need to evolve a few of these values given where we're at with campaign, because it's going to take a little different, know, collaboration will always be one that is critically important to the work that we do. I say empathy is one of, know, sometimes you don't know what another person is doing. So we really lean a lot into empathy and having people talk about their work.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (44:41.56)
Yeah.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (44:57.634)
Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (45:00.45)
and what they do and not just from a high level, everyone's talking about what they do. So you really have to be intentional and you have to have buy-in from either your senior management, your team, managers, like everyone needs to know their role in operationalizing the value system for your organization.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (45:01.986)
Mm-hmm.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (45:19.444)
Mm-hmm. I love that. How do you, or have you been able to figure out a way to have your managers have conversations with people throughout the year about how they're advancing in the values? Because it's something I talk a lot about, and definitely we've had some conversations so far on the podcast about performance management and how it can be just really bad. It's like everybody.
Montique Cotton Kelly (45:43.354)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (45:46.85)
gets reviewed once a year in the exact same way with the exact same rubric and as if they're all the same person. oftentimes, again, we go all the way back to the beginning of our conversation when your manager's not getting a ton of training. You don't necessarily know how to even structure one-on-ones so that you're able to give feedback in a timely manner and in a way that helps the person understand how they're growing within the organization. have you?
Montique Cotton Kelly (46:06.223)
Yeah.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (46:13.922)
been able to put anything into place that kind of helps your managers through that.
Montique Cotton Kelly (46:18.294)
Not holistically throughout the organization. That's an evolutionary process for me. The thing that we do is we do quarterly check-ins, right? So at least it's a status of where are you at with your goals? How are you feeling about your goals? Did you take on a new project? And so while it's not completely operationalized in capturing information in our database system,
Ellen Whitlock Baker (46:29.218)
Nice.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (46:36.6)
Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (46:46.862)
We do quarterly check-ins with our staff. you know, it's, again, this is intentional time, like managing people is tough, hard, sometimes very unfun. And if you're doing it the right way, then you're having consistent conversations to your point about how do you set up a one-on-one? How do you provide a feedback sandwich? How do you, you know, how do you check to make sure
Ellen Whitlock Baker (46:49.772)
That's great.
Montique Cotton Kelly (47:14.842)
You know, we've, we're a lean organization compared again to our aspirational peers. Most advancement shops that are doing our type of work have 250, 300 people. have 170 and we're not probably going to grow beyond that. And so it is incumbent upon us to really lean into that manager piece. But then also some people are not born to be managers. And so as an organization, you have to be okay with having someone be a manager, it not working out.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (47:37.464)
Yeah.
Montique Cotton Kelly (47:44.387)
and saying, this is actually not your gift. Your gift is being an independent contributor. You do great work. This is what I want you to focus on. And we're going to have someone else manage people, right? So I think the other part of this is we try to create evolution or promotion and put people, well, you have to manage people to get to this title and or this salary. And I don't believe that. And so that is something that we're evolving here is there are people who are
Ellen Whitlock Baker (47:54.776)
Yes.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (48:04.01)
Yes, or this salary.
Montique Cotton Kelly (48:12.472)
We definitely do need managers, but we also need to make sure that they're the right manager. And then some people just are not, that's not their thing. It's, and that is okay. And you can make a change. We've made a couple of changes in our organization over the years of like, wow, that did not work out. I mean, I've had to reset people and, but you can do it in a kind, thoughtful, empathetic way. but again,
Ellen Whitlock Baker (48:17.933)
Yes.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (48:24.302)
Totally.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (48:31.011)
Yeah.
Montique Cotton Kelly (48:39.382)
Your performance evaluations, none of the information in your performance evaluation should be a surprise to you. It's a conversation. It is not a penalty situation. It is not a terrible feedback situation. It's like, here was your year in review. Here's what we're doing. Comments from you. It's a conversation. And so no one should be surprised by the time they get to the performance evaluation if the manager has been having those quarterly conversations.
and check-ins along the way.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (49:10.454)
And we've talked about, there's definitely, I have some materials on my website and I've done some blog posts and I think I might've even talked about this in an episode. I'll have to look and catch up in the conclusion here if I did, but you as the employee can absolutely take control of that situation if that is not being done for you. So if your organization institution,
Montique Cotton Kelly (49:29.348)
Yes. Correct.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (49:35.106)
business, whatever, is not doing those quarterly check-ins. If you're not getting feedback from your manager, which is common and also not right, so you can put into place your own set of like, okay, well, every quarter I'm gonna put time on my calendar and I'm gonna turn this one-on-one into a feedback session. I'm gonna send them these questions in advance and I'm gonna ask them to answer them for me. like, you unfortunately have to do more of the work sometimes, but.
Montique Cotton Kelly (49:42.159)
Yes.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (50:01.6)
if you do you're protecting yourself from that surprise, which can be awful. And also just putting yourself in a place where you really know how you're doing.
Montique Cotton Kelly (50:03.726)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Montique Cotton Kelly (50:09.668)
Correct. And, you I will say most managers want to make the time for their staff. It is just diligence and, you know, training and doing the work, right? Like you have to set that time up. And while you have these goals that are you're pushing toward, and we all had for us at UConn, at the UConn Foundation, campaign, launching the campaign has been the motivating factor since my boss started a year ago, January.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (50:14.722)
They do.
Montique Cotton Kelly (50:39.77)
And we dialed into some things. We did some other, you know, small projects. And so time was lost. Like, okay, I have to punt this conversation. One, I'm not ready for this conversation for you. I haven't actually done my work so that I can come into the conversation and be prepared for you. And we really needed to put a stake in the ground. And so our staff, I believe, knew that because we were talking about it consistently. But...
Ellen Whitlock Baker (50:55.074)
Right.
Montique Cotton Kelly (51:08.386)
You have to do the work as a manager. And you can also be like, I am not ready to have this conversation. I have moved one on ones because I was not prepared. It is my job as a manager and your job as a staff member. You both need to show up for the meeting ready. And if one is not, don't have the meeting. No good can come out of that. And as a staff member, you have power there to say, I'm not ready for this meeting right now. And that's okay.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (51:27.234)
Yep. Yep.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (51:37.664)
or I'd like you to be more ready for this meeting.
Montique Cotton Kelly (51:39.963)
Right, or I wanted to give you more information to do these things. And as a manager, I could say, you know what, you're right, I'm not ready. Our conversation is not going to be helpful for the both of us. And so that sometimes to your earlier point, as a staff member, you do have to lean into that. And I will say when the staff members who have leaned into that, they become great managers.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (51:46.561)
Yeah.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (52:02.734)
They really do. They really do. And there's this interesting balance of how much emotional labor, managing up, et cetera, you're willing to do in the workplace. Because it's up to you. And it might be for all of the reasons that we all show up differently. We all have different kinds of trauma. We have different kinds of experiences behind us. So for you, that might not be your gig. And that is OK. But if you're able to do it,
Montique Cotton Kelly (52:18.106)
Correct?
Montique Cotton Kelly (52:27.695)
Yeah.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (52:32.09)
that can be helpful when you're dealing particularly with a manager who maybe isn't doing it, you know, and usually not because they're malicious, but just because they don't know to do that checking in or that feedback giving, or they feel like they have way too much work, which is a whole other, I'll have you back, Mel, and we'll talk about the amount of work that we have in our lives. But let me ask you one last question before my final fun question, because I can't believe we're almost out of time. But I get a lot of people, so I have this ask me anything about work.
Montique Cotton Kelly (52:37.273)
Yeah.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (53:01.9)
you know, anonymous drop a question, you know, line thing. Yeah, it's been really fun. And I'm tackling the question in each of the solo episodes that I'm doing. But a lot of them have the same theme. And it makes me laugh. But it's basically, my boss is terrible at their job. What do I do? And yeah, and I mean, it's funny. It's like the most common theme. And
Montique Cotton Kelly (53:08.153)
Love that.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (53:30.636)
You know, it shows up in different ways. Like they're not giving me feedback or they're trying to get me to do lots of things that are not useful and aren't listening to me when I tell them that they're not, or, you know, they're not doing any of the work but taking all of the credit, which is a fun, typical one. What would your advice be to someone who's feeling like, and again, you don't know what's actually happening in any of these situations, but if you're feeling like your boss doesn't know what...
they're doing in terms of helping you lead or do your work. What can you do?
Montique Cotton Kelly (54:07.642)
Well, I would say, I mean, this is where you talk to your, you know, either your people and culture. I really don't like the word HR. I'm going to eradicate that term for my life. Um, you know, because we have a team of people who are adept at having conversations, right? And preparing you for the conversation with your manager. And then also the follow-up, right? Um, I would say you have to lean into that because, and, and be very clear on examples of.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (54:36.072)
Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (54:36.856)
You know, I say facts, then feelings, because I feel some sort of way, which I don't ever want to have someone's feelings feel like they can't have those feelings. But as you know, as people, as humans, our feelings lead us. And so if you're having this conversation, facts, what are the facts? What are the additional things that your supervisor is asking you to do that you really are questioning how they get to the end goal as it relates to your goals?
Ellen Whitlock Baker (54:39.052)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (54:51.234)
Yeah.
Montique Cotton Kelly (55:04.962)
your professional development, know, kind of categorize them and come leverage your HR team or your, your talent team, because they're versed in having these conversations. Again, your manager can be getting pressure from their manager to do these things. And this is where a level of vulnerability would be happening. If your manager could be vulnerable and having authentic conversation to say, here's all the things coming down. We may have to shift some responsibilities.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (55:22.101)
Sure.
Montique Cotton Kelly (55:32.331)
Let's talk about the things that have to come off your plate. And as a manager, it's your job to figure that out. What's coming off of your plate? What can you delegate? Who needs to do this work? And I think we don't spend enough time. We ask more and more and more. And we don't say as a manager, I'm taking these two things off of your plate and I'm handing them to someone else because your expertise, your skill, your capacity to do this work, your innovative thought, I need your brain on this.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (55:36.792)
What a beautiful statement.
Montique Cotton Kelly (56:01.668)
but I'm taking these two things off of your plate. And that can be a conversation with your team. And you could also come to your boss and say, here are the two things I'm not doing. So in a very thoughtful, again, intentional way, but I will say be clear, use examples, put your feelings, address your feelings to yourself in a moment, but come in with the facts and also provide solutions. Like this is not working and this is why, but here's a great solution that I think
Ellen Whitlock Baker (56:23.438)
Mm-hmm.
Montique Cotton Kelly (56:31.544)
I've looked around the organization and I think there's capacity here. Here's where I can lean in because I will tell you most managers aren't malintent. They really aren't. They may not be good managers. They may be in the wrong seat themselves. They may be overworked and over pressured. Again, not your fault or your own-ness to take on, but you have to also course correct your whole process in this and work with a group of people who can help you and have that conversation so that they can set you up for that conversation.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (56:31.704)
Mm-hmm.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (56:40.45)
No.
Montique Cotton Kelly (57:00.856)
whether that's you having that conversation with your boss or a mediated conversation about kind of workload. And again, those conversations do not have to be antagonistic. They don't have to be unkind. They don't have to be mean. They are really, these are thoughtful, forward thinking conversations that give the manager like, my gosh, I wasn't even thinking about all the things that I did. Gives the staff member opportunity and empowerment to say, wow, this person now is listening to me.
because I provided a space and some real action items to do because I will tell you, I worked for someone too who was terrible. It was horrible. Horrible. And it was a woman. I'm like, why are women mean to women? But I had to actually, it's a whole other podcast, but I had to actually, this was early in my career when I came to the alumni office and I had to figure that out. Like, my God, I feel terrible, but I have to figure out what I'm really good at.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (57:44.039)
that's a whole other thing. Yeah.
Montique Cotton Kelly (57:57.989)
what I can lean into and how do I leverage a team to help support me.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (58:02.318)
And that's where those allies that we were talking about at the beginning and or mentors can be game changers. Like I will say, you for me have been the person I have had that conversation with of like, this person is just not working for me and I'm really struggling. And you were able to be really real with me, which you need sometimes, but also acknowledge my feelings and help me get to some solutions. And that's again, that's not
Montique Cotton Kelly (58:05.508)
Yes, yes, yes.
Montique Cotton Kelly (58:18.223)
Mm-hmm.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (58:33.194)
it's not your manager who's gonna do that for you, especially if your manager's the problem, that's why finding those people are, find your mo, everybody, find your mo. It's game changing. Okay, well, last question. This is because I like to show that everyone is a human being besides a working person. If you were gonna give a TED talk on something that wasn't about work, what would it be on?
Montique Cotton Kelly (58:36.896)
If your manager's a problem, great.
Montique Cotton Kelly (58:43.669)
you're so kind. Thank you.
Montique Cotton Kelly (59:00.45)
rescuing dogs.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (59:01.966)
I love that. Tell me why.
Montique Cotton Kelly (59:05.272)
Well, one, everyone should rescue a dog. Everyone should rescue a dog. There is no better satisfaction to advocate for an animal who can't advocate for themselves and what you get back from your pet. And it doesn't need to be dogs. It could be animals, know, cats or dogs primarily. Birds, did detect birds. can't let, know birds for no. They're scary.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (59:21.837)
Mm-hmm.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (59:25.678)
Birds, whatever, you know. They're scary, I know. Sorry, sorry, bird lovers.
Montique Cotton Kelly (59:33.754)
Yeah, like if you love birds, amen to you, Godspeed. But I'm a dog person. And so I would give a TED Talk on rescuing dogs and the value intrinsic serotonin that is released when you pet your dog or when your animal comes and sees you, like you've been gone for two years and you were gone 15 minutes. That would be my TED Talk.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (59:47.662)
100%.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (59:55.714)
I love that. I love that. And your canine coworker is, I believe, sleeping on your floor, right? Just like mine. I think I heard her, and I was like, what is that sound? she's so cute. Mine's not snoring, but he's definitely fast. They have such hard lives, you know. I love that. Go rescue a dog, everyone. Well, Mo, thank you so much. This has been really awesome.
Montique Cotton Kelly (01:00:01.792)
she's snoring she's snoring
no, she's snoring. She's into it. She's into it.
The
Montique Cotton Kelly (01:00:16.61)
Rescue an animal.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (01:00:21.268)
So much to talk about, but it's really nice to hear your perspective as somebody who is in that leadership role, who is thinking about these things differently and knowing, I think that vulnerability you're talking about is so, it's just so important and so refreshing to be, know, hey, I'm not gonna get all this right. We're gonna try some things and see what happens and here are your guidelines for how we're gonna measure you. And you know, I just think that that's so important. So kudos to you for actually.
Montique Cotton Kelly (01:00:41.228)
No. Yeah.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (01:00:50.722)
getting out there and trying the hard things.
Montique Cotton Kelly (01:00:52.73)
I'm trying, I'm a work in progress like we all are. But you know, I think the core part of it is that you love this work and you wanna do it. And I just, I love people and I want people to succeed. And whether they're succeeding here at the UConn Foundation or we have to, I always say I'm launching you up or launching you out. And it's my job to make sure you're prepared for that. So thank you, I mean, this is fun work. you were too kind.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (01:01:10.517)
I love that.
Ellen Whitlock Baker (01:01:14.126)
May everyone have Mo as a leader someday too. Well, thank you Mo and thanks everyone for listening and we will see you on the next episode of Hard at Work.
Montique Cotton Kelly (01:01:25.147)
Thank you.
Mo Cotton Kelly
Chief People Officer and Senior Vice President for Alumni Engagement
“Mo,” as she is called by family, friends, and colleagues is the Chief People Officer and Senior Vice president for Alumni Engagement. (CPO-SVP), with responsibility for driving operational and comprehensive campaign strategy, overseeing key administrative functions (alumni relations, human resources, board engagement, and foundation operations), and guiding a culture of inclusivity for the UConn Foundation.
In her capacity as Chief People Officer, Mo oversees various HR functions, including recruitment, employee engagement, and performance management, ensuring that the organization attracts and retains top talent. She is dedicated to creating an inclusive environment that promotes diversity and well-being among employees.
As Senior Vice President for Alumni Engagement, Mo is responsible for developing and implementing programs that enhance alumni relations, encouraging lifelong connections and active participation in the community.
Mo was recruited to join the UConn Alumni Association as the Executive Director and Assistant Vice President for alumni relations in 2014. Mo brought with her a national reputation for strong leadership built over two decades in higher education advancement. Mo is known for her ability to lead across departments while building collaborative relationships to enhance the experiences of staff, students, alumni, and friends.
Mo has more than 28 years of experience with higher education institutions in the university advancement field where she has developed exemplary leadership, created strategic plans, cultivated organizational change, and is known nationally as a leader in the industry.
Mo believes that mentorship and sponsorship of not only her staff and colleagues but also those from other institutions is incredibly important. She gives of her time and talent as much as she can and is currently Secretary for the Case Board of Trustees. She has been on the faculty for the Case Minority Institute (MAI), Senior Alumni Relations Institute and was a member of the 2018 Case Summit planning committee.
Prior to coming to UConn, Mo was the executive director of Bowling Green State University’s Alumni Association. Mo received her bachelor’s and master’s degrees from BGSU.
